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  • Writer's pictureTatiana Swedek

Our Comfort is Killing Us with Bobby Lyle

Bobby Lyle, Leadership Coach & Founder of NsightOut, and I discuss living intentionally, finding opportunity in challenging times, working on yourself in order to be of service to others, and why comfort is killing us. This episode has ALL the feels.

You can listen or read the Q&A. Thanks, Bobby!

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TATIANA SWEDEK: I discovered Bobby Lyle on the podcast Current Mood many months ago. In recent conversations with Ant Demby of Humble Riot has also brought up Bobby multiple times. I basically said ‘well, Bobby is providing so much enlightenment for these people I truly respect, I’m going to follow him on Instagram!’ From there, the algorithm set in and we’ve been seeing each others names pop up over the past month. Bobby finally reached out and we had a lovely conversation last week. Bobby, thank you for taking the time!

BOBBY LYLE: Oh, truly a pleasure. I’ve really enjoyed all of our conversations.

TS: Same, same. When we spoke last week, you caught me completely off-guard with the question “What should I know about you?” So, I want to start off this interview with “What should listeners know about Bobby Lyle?”

BL: Oh, okay. Yeah, that’s how that sounds….

TS: Yeah, right?

BL: Sorry about that. I would say just that my intention is really just to be right here where we are. I’m the type of person that really wants to use my skills to elevate people. Hopefully nothing pretentious and nothing too contrived. Just really using what I’ve studied, what I’ve learned, what I’ve experienced to just help you in a way that you need right now.

TS: Love it. When we spoke last week, you told me a little bit about the start of your practice. You used this analogy of how it’s easier to teach others to swim if you yourself just learned. Which is 100% true. Tell us about your journey and the start of your company.

BL: To start: sooooo many mistakes. So many wonderful, magical missteps. My journey itself started with me just being curious about healing my own body. I started learning massage therapy and from there went into yogic movement and more conventional training. Lots of somatic practices. From there it felt like there were some pieces missing. I got certified in neuro-linguistic programming to really work with more of the psychological and the emotional. From there it lead to more of a spiritual practice as well. I started working as an integral facilitator and got certified in that. Really just using all of these different technologies – whether somatic, emotional, cognitive practices. Throw them in the blender and serve what’s needed.

TS: Cool. Is this something you ever envisioned yourself doing?

BL: No. I always liked people and knew I wanted to try to help somehow. My early dreams, before all of this, I was a performer. That was something that helped me have my voice. I find in doing this – I work primarily with creative entrepreneurs, a lot of people that are in the music – I find that I get to help amplify other peoples’ voices. It’s pretty rewarding.

TS: Do you still perform?

BL: In my bedroom.

TS: Not in front of other people.

BL: No, no, no, no. Just small things for myself.

TS: That’s what it’s all about, right? To bring yourself joy.

BL: Right.

TS: Over the last 5 months, a lot of challenges been brought up for a lot of people in a lot of different ways. Whether it’s losing a job, dealing with isolation or solitude, losing a loved one, or even dealing with health anxiety. So what are some current practices or programs you’ve been working through with some of your clients?

BL: Before really trying to get to any tools or anything within a system is first just really being aware of what’s happening right now. I find that there’s such a need to normalize this as it’s incredibly abnormal. People want to suddenly be like ‘oh, well I got to go pay this bill or be more productive or I should be writing a book through all this.’ Just chill for a minute.

It’s trying to let people know that now is the time to really take care of yourself, look after the people that you care about, look at your values and let them really rise to the surface.

We’re literally in a global pandemic. As you see, our country’s really not getting any better right now in terms of how we’re handling it. So, really recognizing that there’s going to be a lot of emotions flowing around. There’s going to be a lot of anxiety going around. Instead of thinking: ‘oh, I should get over it.’ No, there’s a wisdom in all of that. It’s trying to let people know that now is the time to really take care of yourself, look after the people that you care about, look at your values and let them really rise to the surface. Once we recognize all that’s happening there, then we can dive into practices.

TS: That’s very true. That resonated with me: the thought of a lot of people kind of normalizing this. We’ve gone through all of these different waves over the last 5 months and we’ve all dealt with things differently at different times. Even today, my comfort level even leaving my house may be completely different than your comfort level.

BL: Yeah. Absolutely. Or even just doing our little calls or mental check-ins with one another. There are times we want to reach out, other times we want to just cocoon, sometimes I just go out and do some sort of social distance activity. It’s all ok.

TS: It’s interesting. I kind of found that with my family and close friends, I’ve been almost over-communicating my feelings. That’s not a negative thing but it’s checking in with others. Instead of just ‘hey, how are you?’ How are you really going to answer that question, right? But saying ‘this is how I’m feeling right this second, this is what is important to me.’ It has brought me closer with others and hopefully other people feel that, too. There are those days when I do want to just shut everyone out.

BL: It’s really important that we learn to realize that we’re not the only ones going through this. I find there’s a tendency for people to think somehow it’s only happening to them, you know? I was speaking to someone who was suddenly so freaked out like ‘I’ve got to get my property…be with my friends.’ Also recognize that those people are quarantined, too. Those people are experiencing it, too. So, I’d say recognize the urgency. One thing I say to my clients is: am I responding to need or noise?

One thing I say to my clients is: am I responding to need or noise?

BL: Something you were saying earlier in terms of practice – I realize I didn’t answer that. One of the first things I do when I work with people, one of the first things we learn to do is to just breathe. Just the simple act of taking a breath and understanding that we get to go ahead and relax the nervous system. Suddenly, all of our other tools and our perspective-taking becomes available to us. When we get so amped up, our nervous system is on high-alert and we find ourselves in that hyper-arousal state. And suddenly everything that’s coming at us is a threat. We don’t have the capacity to really analyze or check-in with ourselves.

TS: I guess we should’ve started this interview with a deep-breathing exercise. I’ve been thinking a lot about the idea of historical patterns and looking at past patterns in my own life, but also in a larger sense of my city, my society. Really to kind of identify hiccups in what has stunted progress or why this current environment exists and how to reshape these patterns for a better future. Recently I feel like I’ve been avoiding doing that with my own life because it takes work which brings up icky thoughts or icky feelings. I think a lot of people experience this and end up turning to filling up their time with distractions of ‘productivity.’ So, cleaning the house, working out, working. While these things can be positive, they can also be fueled by avoidance of something else. I know what I just said is fully loaded and all over the place….but what’re your thoughts, Bobby?

BL: I’m sorry, what did you say?

TS: Oh my gosh, if I had to repeat that stream of consciousness…I don’t think I could.

BL: What I hear from you is recognizing what’s happening for you individually as well as what you see happening in the larger collective societally. And that’s something around patterns and you’re talking about being productive – sometimes feeling motivated to do them, sometimes not feeling motivated to do them. Can you tell me the challenge for you specifically?

TS: Oh gosh. I don’t know. My challenge is not so much looking at historical patterns in society and what’s going on. That’s almost the easier of the two versus looking at my own patterns and thought processes, right? That can be more subjective. That’s how I turn these ways of productivity – I’m getting things done but at the expense of not looking at myself.

BL: I can hear that. Getting really caught up in tasks.

TS: Right.

BL: Find hope in saying ‘this will go ahead and fill this space’ or in what might feel unaccomplished. Sometimes, it can be tedious. What I’m finding in a lot of this, because we’ve been so habituated with values of the ‘old world’ as of 5 months ago. And recognizing that a lot of those values or things that seem so important don’t really mean much right now. This is not to disparage anyone, but what’s the role of an ‘influencer’ right now?

TS: Yeah.

BL: These people have their glamorous shots. And you’re like ‘yeah, ok that’s your kitchen. I have a kitchen, too.’ Recognizing that a lot of the things that once seemed so important to us actually have no universal truth to whatever importance or value we placed to that. Like, what really matters right now? People who have been doing work in terms of anything with development, stillness or unraveling that, this can be an interesting or even exciting time. Also being aware of the tragedy of it as well; however, I’ve recognized from people who have maybe been just so about the surface – what I’m accomplishing, what I’m doing, what I’m producing – nothing that really taps into any kind of values. I find that right now is going to be a time where those people are really struggling. What can be really useful is taking the time to get to your values. To get to the things that really, really matter. Doing without the sense of being is not going to get you there.

What can be really useful is taking the time to get to your values. To get to the things that really, really matter. Doing without the sense of being is not going to get you there.

I want to talk about just recognizing of that being and doing space. That space of being, where we’re just sort of circling, is a space where we find a sort of stillness. That doing space: the space that’s active. I like to say these things because I know that saying ‘masculine energy vs. feminine energy’ can sometimes. Even in that space of acting or of producing. You know, getting out there and doing all the things without any real intention. It can be violating, it can be exhausting, it can be fruitless and pointless. That’s why, sometimes in that being space puts me in touch with my values and sets my intention. Instead of doing 500 things, I can just do 2. And I can recognize that that served a purpose. I know that was a lot of words.

TS: No, I loved it. I’m happy that this is being recorded so I can listen to it over and over again. That idea of really honing in on or taking this time to hone in on your values actually touches on another thing I’ve been thinking about over the last couple weeks. I’m going to bring this up, it’s actually kind of embarrassing, but I can be kind of an astrology freak. I’m not that educated on it but I find it informative and fun. What’s your sign?

BL: My Sun is Pisces, Cancer Moon and Libra Rising.

TS: Oh, I love it. Those are all really good.

BL: A little bit of water.

TS: Yeah! All my really close friends are Pisces Suns. I’m Taurus Sun, Libra Rising and Capricorn Moon.

BL: Okay, we get along.

TS: Yeah, exactly. I find astrology fascinating because I think a lot of us look different places to try and find answers, whether that’s astrology, religion, or whatever it may be. Yesterday was New Moon. Shout-out New Moon in Cancer. With all of the feels.

BL: Yeah.

TS: I read that I was supposed to write intentions and take note of my dreams in order to find more insight into my life. That is easier said than done. Like, what are my dreams or overall goals? I think that a lot of people, not just young people but people at any stage of their life, can relate to that. How do you suggest people or organizations work to sit down, write down intentions and kind of find their overall purpose or core values?

BL: Thank you. That’s a great question. One of the things that I think is really important is to first just take some time. I would recommend free-writing things that matter the most to you in the world. Whether it’s just like: family, chocolate, your favorite song, what social issues matter to you. It doesn’t matter. Whatever is off the dome. Just start to go through that so you can see it represented in front of you. It’s like: ‘Okay, yeah. This is part of my map.’ Let that begin to inform how you show up in the world. When I start my day, what is it that gets me out of bed? What are the thoughts that keep me up at night? What are the thoughts that wake me up? Just understanding what are the things that matter so much to me. As simple as this seems….when we let so much information from outside of us take up all the space, I find that some people don’t necessarily understand how to separate the two. I’d say, the first is really recognizing what’s true to you and what does your voice actually sound like? After you start gathering all of that information, I’d say a next step can be to start to understand, you know, a simple question like ‘Why am I here?’ I would say, simply, considering the life that you led: not just your values but even the patterns and challenges that have come up. Have you found any challenges where you’re like ‘oh, this AGAIN?’

TS: Yeah, I’m sure. Like I said, I’ve been avoiding that work.

BL: Yeah, or looking at the things you’re avoiding or if there is anything consistent in that. Or things that you enjoy doing. Finding all of these patterns and putting all of that information together and ask yourself: what question have I been put here to answer? I think that’s really different for each person. I think that begins to help you craft what your mission is.

TS: That’s interesting. It kind of brought me back to this memory. I love Spain and I’ve been thinking about it a lot the last couple of days. I met a friend in Barcelona two or three years ago. He asked me: ‘what do you do for life?’ I was caught off guard because I was like ‘what do you mean? What do I do for work?’ Because here in the U.S. we say ‘what do you do?’ It means: how do you make a living?

BL: Yeah.

TS: I was just like: ‘I don’t know how to answer that question!!’ Hopefully right now people are taking this time, if they can’t answer that question, to really dig deep and figure out those answers. Because it’s not just one thing, right?

BL: Yeah, I’m glad you brought that up. That is one of the worst things. So, after your name, what do you do?

TS: Right.

BL: For me, I’ll be a smart ass sometimes and say: ‘I’m learning to ski , I like spending time with my mom.’ It’s really interesting because I find that’s such a way of having to constantly qualify our lives. It’s almost like asking a person: ‘why do you matter?’ That’s rough. Kind of what you were saying…I’ve found that we’ve been given this new burden of having to be a brand. You know? We’re just these walking brands. In these months going through this, I’ve found that our experience in this is showing us where we’re not the most consistent with the ‘brand’ of us.

TS: What do you mean by that?

BL: So, your social media presence – that image that you put out to the world. Here’s what I consume, here are the people that roll with me, here’s a whole image of me. But, as we’re going through these things where, you know, I’m not able to travel or I’m not able to help pump up that idea of me. I have to deal with the reality of me and finding that there are these inconsistencies. It’s a struggle enough of just going through this alone and then still trying to maintain an image of yourself within it that is nearly impossible. Some of my clients are like: ‘you know, I think I’m done with that. I just get to be me…or discover and get to learn me.’

TS: Or re-create and redefine. When we spoke last week I remember I said ‘I lost my job’ and you re-framed that as making more space to do things I want to do or that I’m meant to do. I am very fortunate to be able to say this but while losing my job was a loss of income, it was so much of my identity. It felt like I lost a huge part of myself. I think that was a bigger thing to actually come to terms with rather than just losing a job. Right? It is interesting. I think that America does place a lot of emphasis on that curated brand image.

BL: Absolutely. We do so much to constantly try and validate or qualify ourselves. Through this difficult time – I also don’t want to invalidate or underscore how difficult this is. We’ve both lost people through this and it’s been really difficult. But I find there’s also opportunity within adversity. We talk about what’s available to us. You talk about losing your job but also making this space. The only reason I preface that is because I don’t want to seem so cavalier and that the message we’ve got is ‘oh, just do something new.’ Obviously, for a lot of people that’s not a possibility. However, a thing that can be possible is to recognize that this opportunity creates new needs. Understanding that within those new needs I can recognize where the things I do well align with what a new need might be. Some of the work that I do and one of the things I’ve been doing with my clients is: ‘Hey, listen we all need to understand what it is to sacrifice.’ So maybe some of the things that you do – find how that shows up in service and how you can almost create these little micro-economies. At one point, these clients that had a little bit more would go shopping and, just for a couple of extra bucks, they would go ahead and put some food down in their lobby. Another person would see that and could distribute to different people who are in need. Just finding ways in which all these people can work together to get needs met and not a single dollar had to pass hands.

BL: It's not just a cavalier thing of ‘oh, just find something new.’ Just recognizing that there are so many needs and needs create opportunity. Where does that maybe line-up for you? And recognize that your identity no longer has to be in that brick-and-mortar or that 9-5 you were doing before but more in what becomes important to you. How you show up for your family, how you show up for your community and how you show up for yourself.

TS: When you say little micro-economies, it really resonated with me. It’s much more than being about money, right? It’s about showing up for your community in whatever way you can. I remember in early June. I can’t believe it’s July. In early June when all of the protests first started in the wake of the murder of George Floyd I had this struggle because I’ve some severe anxiety in terms of COVID and catching it and things like that. So I didn’t go to a lot of protests. I went to one small one near my house and stayed away from the crowd. I felt terrible like I was not showing up. I had friends that were going but I wasn’t going and I’d write about that. But then I realized there are also other ways I can be there and I know what my values are and really just showing up in different ways. Whether that’s promoting my favorite coffee shop in my neighborhood that is black-owned, donating, having conversations or educating. I think that a lot of us can be very hard on ourselves. But, during this time, really sitting down and – exactly what you said – writing down your values, what you care about and having that preface or inform your actions is really meaningful.

BL: It's interesting because on top of the pandemic there’s this reckoning with our country’s history, specifically around race and inequality and these questions around equity. So it’s an amazing time to be alive. Again, there’s going to be all the feels that are coming up around it. If we can just go ahead and do away with the idea that somehow we get to jump to a Kumbaya-moment?

TS: When has that ever happened, right?

BL: Exactly. That’s exactly what I was going to say. Even in your life, if you’ve got to any significant transformation it has never been easy. Recognizing that there’s a lot that has to happen individually, inter-personally as well as institutionally. Institutionally, where it’s rocky as all hell, it’s also mirroring what’s happening to each of us individually. Myself, as a Black man, there’s a lot that I’m reckoning with. Where I’m recognizing even my own miseducation within my country and the things that I need to get to do, learn and show up. I don’t get to sit back on my laurels either. Trying to make ourselves wrong isn’t helping. And definitely trying to make one another wrong doesn’t help either. This is just my perspective amongst many. Being clear that the road towards any kind of progress is not monolithic answers. What I’ve found to be really important is listening and allowing the clumsiness, you know? We don’t have to go into a whole thing about cancelling one another because we know how that goes. Also recognizing where that’s not useful.

TS: I think that accountability is key but accountability comes from a place of caring, openness and growth. And cancel culture is none of that.

BL: The problem with that is that there’s no room for learning. If I’m just going straight to punishment, where am I actually invested in people’s learning? Where am I invested in things getting better? If I have to invest in things getting better, I need to allow the space for it.

TS: How do you create that space?

BL: By letting each other stumble. By letting each other fall. Being interested in what we maybe don’t know. There’s some things that we don’t know. Within that space, we get to educate ourselves and learn. In those spaces where we don’t know what we don’t know, it’s funny because we’ll know that that comes up because that’s where our triggers lie. If you’ve ever been speaking with someone and notice when they just fly off the handle, that often happens in something that they may not know that they don’t know about themselves.


TS: That actually brings up another thing I wanted to touch on. I’m sure you’ve seen all the brands kind of jumping and making statements and a lot of them look very much the same. I think they don’t know how to navigate this space. Perhaps it comes back to core values. That’s individual and organizational. How can organizations show allyship and show up for communities who are usually left unseen or unheard?

BL: Simple question, right?

TS: I don’t know if you've been working with organizations recently on that but I think it’s a very important thing to touch on.

BL: A question that is interesting is: if activism is performative or not, does it matter?

TS: Right.

BL: You know, it’s like people are getting certain results because they’re doing it for marketing or they’re doing it because they care. Does it matter? That’s something for other people to answer. That’s up to you. But I find that personally, when things can just be performative then they’re not sustainable. Again, my perspective.

But I find that personally, when things can just be performative then they’re not sustainable.

BL: I believe that when you’r’e doing anything – whether it’s around social justice, equity around race, or even this reckoning of understanding white supremacy and the history of slavery and how it’s shown up - regardless, it has to strike a nerve individually. There has to be something within you that decides that this is what equity looks like and from there inform what we start to do and how we work inter-personally. Then from there interpersonal dynamics can then ripple into the institution itself. That’s really lofty and idealistic on my part, but that’s really the approach I take when working with the orgnaizations. Just begin with individuals. Obviously, within groups but really challenging people’s values, allowing people to be uncomfortable and have difficult conversations.

If you can’t get uncomfortable by things that have been oppressing people – things that have been just so heinous, violent and ugly – and you can’t be uncomfortable for a few minutes? Then you’re not really down for the cause and you’re not going to affect any significant change.

TS: Yeah, I definitely agree. It’s interesting when you say ‘starting with the individual.’ That’s especially also important I think the U.S. because we’re such an individualistic society. I probably sound idealistic as well. It starts with one person and grows from there.

BL: We have to get to the place of being uncomfortable – all of us. Recognizing a system has been in place for so long, it’s impossible that we’ve not all been serving it somehow. It’s impossible that we’ve not all been complicit somehow. I recognize, too, from my own miseducation how I’ve been complicit AND complacent in my own oppression. It’s interesting when we look at predators for women that come up….it’s interesting because women will be the first to defend. Just finding how many people that find ways to continue to prop up a system because we’ve found a certain level of comfort within it.

Even with people and what’s happening around work and finding their identity in that. Or ‘oh, I’m so angry because I can’t go shop.’ All these things that other places in the world have never even seen. I find right now that our comfort is killing us. The system itself, especially around white supremacy, what it’s done is its created such a comfort within it. Again, comfort is killing us. We’ve all got to figure out a way right now, even-though we’re uncomfortable – are we really?

I find right now that our comfort is killing us. The system itself, especially around white supremacy, what it’s done is it’s created such a comfort within it. Again, comfort is killing us. We’ve all got to figure out a way right now, even-though we’re uncomfortable – are we really?

TS: That’s key. I’ve also been thinking about in terms of taking action and making change – and I’ve always been a very strong believer in this – you can’t change an entire country in a day, in a week, in 5 years.

BL: Absolutely.

TS: It starts in your house, it starts on your block, then it goes to your neighborhood and your city. I think that the biggest impact the individual can make is at the micro-level and then it grows into the macro. It takes time but that’s something I’ve been thinking a lot about recently.

BL: Think about whenever you decide to start a new fitness regimen. The first few times you’re like ‘ohh, I don’t know how I’m doing this!’ Think about how long that takes until it becomes a habit. Like ‘wow, my day’s not complete until I do that.’ You definitely don’t feel that when you’re starting. And so, for even something as simple as that – it’s not even controversial. There’s nothing controversial about that. Look at how difficult that still is. Absolutely. The space around the learning and the fumbling – I also mean time. And allow that. Even when I say ‘are we uncomfortable enough?’

Recognizing hard work isn’t just doing what you’ve been doing harder.….hard work is going out and doing something new. Something that’s really uncomfortable and challenging, and then do that consistently. Ultimately, are we willing to break free of the way where we’re conditioned to try and just same our way to different?

Recognizing hard work isn’t just doing what you’ve been doing harder.….hard work is going out and doing something new. Something that’s really uncomfortable and challenging, and then do that consistently. Ultimately, are we willing to break free of the way where we’re conditioned to try and just same our way to different?

TS: And that brings up when I was talking about past patterns or historic patterns. Just doing more of the same or, exactly what you said, doing it harder is not changing anything.

BL: No.


BL: And to answer a question that you raised earlier around intentions. When you said dreams – did you mean dreams in terms of aspirations? Or dreams in terms of the things that are happening in your sleep?

TS: Aspirations. I’ve been having very weird dreams recently so none of that.

BL: That’s definitely another conversation. I think what’s really interesting now ….. what’s an intention your’re setting right now?

TS: I don’t know how to set intentions, quite honestly.

BL: What’s a goal you have for yourself?

TS: It doesn’t have to be lofty, right? It can be extremely basic?

BL: I encourage that.

TS: I need to go to the grocery store later. That’s a goal. I need to actually leave my house and get groceries.

BL: Okay, you need to leave your house and go get groceries. On the other side of that – what’s the point of you going to get groceries?

TS: To be able to eat.

BL: Okay. I’m sure there’s probably just stuff you could scrounge for and scavenge in your home?

TS: Yeah.

BL: But instead, you’re going to get certain things to eat. So, why the certain things?

TS: Primarily going to be vegetables so I can keep my body healthy.

BL: Okay so it’s the types of vegetable you’re going to get – it makes you feel healthy. How do you feel healthy?

TS: I feel light.

BL: Okay, you feel light. Anything else?

TS: I feel more positive.

BL: Okay, you feel light and positive. So thinking after you’ve gone to get the groceries, you’re back and you have the vegetables. You feel light, it’s going to make you feel more positive. What else are you going to feel?

TS: Accomplished. It sounds so funny because I’m talking about going to the grocery story.

BL: Hey, it’s something significant. So you want to feel that sense of accomplishment, feel light, feel positive. It sounds like being mindful of having something nutritious. On the other side of that goal is that lightness, that positivity and that sense of accomplishment.

TS: Right.

BL: How does that feel even hearing that?

TS: It feels good to be able to look at something so small have great rewards.

BL: Awesome. So recognizing that on the other side of the goal is the sense of accomplishment, the positivity and the lightness. And so, understanding that’s on the other side of the goal, that’s the intention. Recognizing that that’s the intention you get to set. What it does is that it gives the goal a purpose. Instead of it being a thing that you have to do, it now is that thing you get to do.

TS: Oh, ok. I like that.

BL: How does that feel?

TS: It feels good. It honestly makes the idea of writing intentions a bit more easy.

BL: The idea of just a goal in and of itself – that feels like a task.

TS: Absolutely.

BL: But if you look beyond the completion of that goal and the thing you get to be, or when you find the purpose of it, that then becomes the intention and then it feels aspirational. It keeps you motivated. So, recognizing that even though a task or goal is something that feels like it’s in the future. When you set the intention – that gets to happen right now. You get to occupy that head-space and recognize that once you set that and your awareness is focused on that, you’re already living and walking the intention.

TS: Got me there.

BL: Well I hope it helps you in selecting some yummy snacks.

TS: Yeah, healthy, remember? I gotta stay away from the ice cream.

BL: Hey, I’m saying there’s a lot of veggies and a lot of things you can do with them that are crazy yummy.

TS: That’s very true. That’s helpful. Thank you, Bobby. Is there anything else that’s currently on your mind that you want to touch on?

BL: Again, just thinking about all the things that are happening right now and just hoping people take the time to recognize the opportunities that are available right now. Also understanding that the reason we focus on ourselves is that idea of putting your masculine first. So, even when we’re doing a lot of this work around exploring your feelings and being able to go ahead and focus on yourself, it's just so that your can be in the best place so that when you are of service to others, it’s not performative nor is it just training your reserves. It comes from a place that has you fully fueled and where you can fully show up.

TS: I love that. Well, thank you Bobby for taking the time.

BL: Oh, Tatiana, it is my pleasure. This is more fun that I thought it would be. Not that I thought it wouldn’t be fun.

TS: I feel you. You also made it so that I actually look forward to going to the grocery story. I don’t think that anyone has ever done that.

BL: Something I’d recommend doing with that is to put in there or bake in there a reward for yourself. Maybe before you go, you can look at a recipe book for one fun, healthy thing I get to make and get the ingredients for. All about the rewards.

TS: For sure. Those definitely drive a lot of what we do.

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